That’s the claim of Sam Lubell, in his Editorial “The Intern Catch-22” for The Architect’s Newspaper. Lubell puts it this way:
“[The unpaid internship has] become a staple of architecture. A rite of passage, despite the debt burden from an education that usually costs more than $30,000 a year. And it’s not just small struggling firms. Even top architects get their work done by interns. Never mind that offering unpaid internships excludes those not wealthy enough to go without pay, or just the fact that they are generally not legal. Not offering money lowers the bar all the way down the line. Soon unpaid positions become expected. The value of architecture is lowered even further.”
We agree that unpaid internships tread on murky ethical territory, but Lubell’s ultimate point, that they “lower the bar” for architecture, strikes us as a bit unfounded. It seems to us that it’s far more damaging (financially and psychologically) for those entering the profession than for architecture itself.
What do you think? Do you have unpaid interns at your firm? Have they “lowered the bar” of your work? Are unpaid internships a necessary evil in a post-Recession world? Or just plain wrong? Let us know in the comments below!
Story via The Architect’s Newspaper
I’m of the opinion that unpaid internships have such a negative impact on architecture. Firstly its just immoral that someone with a degree, who has spent thousands of pounds educating themselves works without payment. Secondly, it means that architecture is becoming less of a profession which is available to all, it simply means that the rich are the ones who can afford to work. Finally it means that larger architecture firms, fosters/OMA can lower their fees as they aren’t are paying so little for competitions etc. so architects fees get lower and lower. Hence, architects struggling in this recession after the last recession when people worked for free. It’s undervaluing our work and the fair pay that we deserve. Its also eliminating smaller practices as they can’t keep up with the larger practices. It needs to stop.
I completely agree. To his point that “the value of architecture is lowered even further” is accurate. It gives clients an unfair expectation of the amount of capital it takes to make projects come to fruition. This article misquoted it as “lower the bar” which is completely different. Unfortunately, the unpaid positions are becoming the norm not only for architecture students, but for many professional positions.
“ It gives clients an unfair expectation of the amount of capital it takes to make projects come to fruition. ”
This is the most important part. When you don’t pay your employees, you don’t bill for their hours adequately, and you cut down on the integrity of the profession. And this creates a feeback loop, as clients then expect X amount of work which requires X+interns amount of labor.
We constantly bitch and moan about not being paid enough, and then we undermine our own futures by not demanding the respect we think we deserve.
Post-recession? Unpaid internships have been the norm in my industry (financial) even in the 90s.
Unpaid internships in architecture are absolutely wrong. Interns are expected to work ungodly hours, making it near-impossible to have a second, paying job. thus, only young people with external financial support can afford to work these internships. After a financially burdensome education, it’s immoral to require young architects to go without pay. It devalues their education and their skills, and ultimately degrades the profession.
Just recently I applied for a job going into my fourth year of my bachelor. The email that was sent out to the students about the job offer stated that there was a contract position availble for those almost out of school (4th year) and an internship for those who just wanted summer work. When I entered the interview, I was very forward about the fact that in my position (as honored as I was to get an interview) I needed to apply solely for the paid contract position as I have my wedding coming up, and life needs to start after school. I was basically told before the interview had even started that the employer (a smaller firm) was going to see what they had before they really firmed up what they were looking for. To me this was The epitome of a shady interaction that I hope doesn’t ripple too deep into our community. I am all for internships, but I have done two while I was in school, as well as a number of fun and engaging volunteer opportunities. But I need to start planning for life, the payments of student loans, my wedding etc. I can’t and shouldn’t be thinking this far into the program if I’m still going to be interning. Maybe my opinion is wrong, and I mean no disrespect to those companies who do have interns. A bad experience has just left me questioning some people’s resolve.
Don’t worry about disrepecting companies that have no interns. They have no respect for you.
Think of the whole issue this way; do you think any of the builders who put our buildings together would work for free? Even the unskilled labourers? So why should the highly trained, heavily educated, hard working young architects..?
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“If a young person wants to get ahead and reach the top then it is simply to be expected that there will be some sacrifices along the way.”
That attitude is what perpetuates this exploitative cycle. It is absolutely unethical not to pay people who perform a valuable service to you. Not only that, but it’s simple economics that free labor drives down the cost of services, devaluing our profession.
You have no justification for your exploitative practices other than the tit-for-tat excuse of “that’s what I had to do, so that’s what everyone should have to do”. Luckily, time will wash out all of the old snobs such as yourself, and hopefully the new crop will recognize the value in young talent and pay them appropriately.
To brb001:
Your suggestion of architecture being for the rich couldn’t be more wrong. Architecture is about manipulating the physical environment to improve upon society, not a luxury reserved for high-earning elitists. Diversity of architects is paramount to architecture as it provides the building industry with an authentic cross section of societies, and presents a wider toolkit of problem solving by design.
To show so little respect for employees through unpaid internships, which as you pointed out is based on whether they come from a rich background or not, inevitably deteriorates the reputation of architecture. It makes it a frilly, pillow fluffing practice for the rich, when in reality it is actually a fundamentally powerful development tool.
If you’re an architect, it sounds more on paper than in practice.
the entire profession has gone down the tubes.
I don’t know about that. Last summer I wasn’t able to land a paid internship anywhere so I went back home to Seattle and found a relatively small firm that let me come on as an unpaid intern to get some experience as a last resort.
Although I had to valet at night to make some money it was a really worthwhile experience and I was very thankful to them. Furthermore, though they couldn’t pay me they taught me a lot and paid for me to attend architectural events around the city. Then, this summer they offered me a paid internship (without even having to apply).
So yes, I agree that there is a lot of unsavory behavior and some unfair practice. However, I dont think the ENTIRE PROFESSION has gone down the tubes.
You get what you pay for.
Econ 101.
Nuff said.
Unpaid Internships are illegal violating Federal Law. Only in certain circumstances is it legal to actually be employed as an intern without compensation – see here: http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf You will notice it is very difficult to lawfully offer an unpaid internship.
Secondly, IDP credit is not awarded for unpaid internships except in areas like community service. By offering unpaid internships we actually help create a lost generation who cannot obtain a license to practice architecture.
Lastly, it is against the AIA code of ethics to offer unpaid internships. Following a movement lead by the American Institute of Architecture Students, the AIA, ACSA, NCARB, and NAAB all do not support unpaid internships and consider it unethical. The AIAS, an independent non-profit student organization, requires all student leaders who serve the National Organization to even sign a form vowing to not accept unpaid internships. The AIAS constantly advocates against unpaid internships and encourages students to report firms and employers that are breaking Federal Laws on Intern Compensation.
So if you are working for a firm that is not paying you and does not meet Federal Law as referenced above – report that firm and help stop illegal unpaid internships!
thats interesting. I wonder is there similar laws in the EU and UK and how can I get my hands on them?
as an international student in the US i cannot get paid by a firm even if they wanted to pay me (student visa law), the only way for me to get paid is if I register for an internship class in school and that way I could get paid and get the credits. the catch is – i have to PAY for the credits i take in school, and summer credits are generally more expensive!
So basically I’m buying the right to get paid. Thanks a lot!
regardless, I think that any firm that doesn’t offer compensation to student interns should AT LEAST offer stipends for lunch, or travel expenses. that way if i don’t get paid, at least I don’t have to spend money on the internship.
In the matter of lowering the value of architecture i think that what looses value is the the quality of work and ambition with the interns, when you have it in the back of your mind that you work for free and someone else is going to get paid for it, most people would eventually resent the work place and not produce the best amount of work they could.
Yes i totally agre, im in russia for 6 weeks in an office, i dont get paid, but my accom is free, (but its a dump not worth pennies) I m not being taught a thing, everything I design they just take and put into there work, I wont get any recognition and with 2 weeks left ive given up giving a hoot!!! Ive lost so much money coming here, 6 weeks paying for the ‘experience’, 6 weeks of no work at home and paying for rent at home, fair enough its a job in an office, but without pay im at a loss, and that just isnt right!
A former classmate of mine took unpaid internships all through college and was lauded by professors for working for famous offices. Upon graduating he worked a year for free in the attempt to work at a distinguished office until his parents cut him off and asked his employer to be paid. He was fired the following day, not due to work ethic or ability merely a request to be compensated according to his skill set and hard work. Many award winning offices seem to follow this principle and critics in the media overlook these facts and recognize them as the pinnacle of our profession. If that is the ethical bar being set by the supposed top tier I think the above article is accurate.
How do you think Nike and the like are so wealthy? There is definitely a correlation between sweat shops and unpaid interns, although sweat shop workers are probably getting paid more.
Unpaid internships transform architecture from a beautiful, ESSENTIAL service to society into a disgusting trade. Does it lower the quality? Undoubtedly… the question itself is actually puerile.
You have a group of individuals – recent grads – looking for jobs & firms looking for slaves (because you cannot call unpaid persons employees). Who will get the positions? The main selection criteria is not who is most qualified, but who is able to afford such a “job” (afford a job…wow), so inherently the process is constructed such that it will dull down the maximum potential.
Secondly, all architects are human some might argue. And no matter how much a human loves an art, being financially rewarded for the dedication will only determine a human to become even more dedicated to the art… and thus desire progress and success even more, work even harder, become even better. BUT NO, in architecture progress is not considered.
However, the moment ONE SINGLE FIRM will accept ONE unpaid intern, the system will gravitate towards a nash equilibrium… and thus slavery will gloriously live on in spite of everything humane and decent.
LOL… Columbia
well put mate!
slavery! seen it first hand, if ur working on a project and need some renders, some details basically the boring parts, get a cad monkey/intern to do ur work for free!!! they all do it! and “thats what I did” is not an excuse! we need to live too!
Agree with everything you have said, and architecture is seriously going down the wrong path if we have to question “Can I afford this job?” – that’s bad chat.
Applying for interns/placements ahead of 4th year however, I myself am even considering, due to the severely limited work in the country, applying to work voluntarily just to get something on the CV ahead of the other 1000-odd students on the hunt (of which only 20% actually find work)
Most people will agree that unpaid internships are terrible for the interns, but it’s not unfounded that it’s also terrible for the profession. It’s the front line in the race to the bottom whereby everyone underbids on projects in an attempt to undercut competition. The result is a completely deflated industry where projects mostly come in over budget and staff work extra hours for less pay to get them done. It’s the opposite of a bubble–clients have an incredibly lowered expectation of the real costs of this business, and instead of demanding fair value for their work across the board, architects would rather starve (or let their staff starve) than to raise fees and expectations. It starts with the interns, but at this rate that’s not where it’s ending.
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“Paying someone in experience” is a rationalization used to justify extortion by otherwise upstanding professionals.
In the US, the architect registration board recently enacted an unpaid internship-preventative measure by requiring interns to get paid in order to log hours of experience. Still, I know of people who cannot find summer work (design or otherwise) and are forced into taking unpaid jobs for the experience.
Unpaid internships are illegal for a reason.
The truth is architecture is a soft cost at the end of the day.
Architects must change everything about the business model of architecture.Demand more by giving more – REAL COST SAVINGS WITH GOOD IDEAS – not just be good at drawing on the screen.
High Design is a luxury, that is the truth.
As an intern myself, I think I would laugh in the face of someone who offered an unpaid intership to me.
First and foremost, an unpaid internship doesn’t count toward our IDP hours… you must be paid in order for those hours of experience to register. Isn’t that the goal of this whole thing after all… to be an architect? So I just feel like it would be wasteful to not be able to register for the… oh lets see.. 5000-6000 hours of experience we have to log.
Secondly, say some huge firm offered me that unpaid intership. Yes, it would look great on your resume, but how could one afford to live in that (probably huge) city in which the firm is located?
Thirdly, how do you expect me to really put everything I have into the quality of the job, if at the end of the day, I’m not getting any commpensation? People respond to proper compensation… so by not offering that, you are not only devaluing the employee but also the work that is being put out onto the jobsite.
Sadly, I know of interns who are not getting paid but are having their employers fake the forms required to send into the NCARB IDP office so it looks like they were qualified for the hours. In the end, acts like this will hurt young professionals even more.
I’m against UNPAID internship, but I’m also against this over value of them.
All those people who say that an internship is awful and not gratifying are the ones whose were explore and explore their own interns as well. If you think you don’t pay him enough is because you are giving him/her task that you wouldn’t like to take.
An intern in your in a office means another face of education for him/her. And that’s you it requires a lot of time/money expend on teaching architecture. The risk that rest on a intern shoulders are much more a risk to the boss.
Interns are paid to learn. It’s up to them to work in a place where he/she can learn the most.
i see a lot of interns that don’t see a good internship as an investment. Not only a fancy architectural firm in your resume, but also an investment to grow with the firm and later be a associate or partner. I also see a lot of students complaining about their salaries, but none of them are op to the risk of taking the responsibility of a project or the risks of owing a firm.
But, of course, the low payment is a domino effect to the up positions, but for me it’s more of a matter of ratio. If the firm generates a lot of money, their employees get a lot, and a intern is part of that too….
As an intern I agree that unpaid, is unfair. I myself have had to regrettably turn down a number of positions at ‘prestigious’ firms all over the world because of this issue. I just don’t have the finances to take such hits. It is especially concerning when work-terms are actually mandatory in some university programs.
It gives wealthy students an unfair advantage, and is detrimental to the architecture because who knows how many rich kids are sitting in the offices, studios and even universities just because they could afford when there is probably a long list of more qualified applicants that just couldn’t. (this also happened to me… got accepted to an Ivey league school… had to stay in Canada because I could not afford tuition)
It all just perpetuates the stereotype that architecture is for the wealthy.
I don’t think things are exactly like that… I graduated from an Ivy League School (+3 year program)and I didn’t have a lot of money… but I received a few scholarships and with a complimentary student loan I managed to graduate at the top of my class. Most of my schoolmates had the same issues, it’s a myth that rich people go to Ivy League Schools… my loan had a really low interest and 5 years later I am debt free…
Brb001 I think its absurd that you think poor kids should be weeded out of architecture just because of financial reasons. Honestly, unbelievable. I cant believe anyone involved in architecture believes that but I guess if these ideas exist you can see where the current problems have arisen from
unpaid internships are disgusting but another important thing is that when you are a recent graduate, firms only want to pay you just a couple of dollars more than retail jobs and mcdonalds min. wages and it is not fair at all. 16 or 15$ an hour even or an monthly stipend, and I mean how are you gonna pay your loans, rent, food, energy bills and everything.
With respect of the guy saying: that happens in another fields: really? what about lawyers, financial students,engineers,
why AIA has not done nothing about it, thats something they never promote or make an strong campaign about it.
I hope the situation gets better and everyone get a wonderful experience as interns.
We hold the profession and our collaborators in the highest regard. We pay our interns fairly while nurturing critical thinking. They are immersed in the design proccess, their opinion is valued, and they leave our office with an incredible experience while contributing to our built environment. Treating people fairly is a win/win situation, good business,and great marketing!
can i get a intern job with u so please!
Lubell’s totally right on all fronts. It’s immoral to make people do a day’s work and not pay them. Yet once one firm does it, other have to join the race to the bottom to compete.
This leaves us with a profession made up only of those whose parents will pay them to work for free.
It seems like the heinous practice of unpaid internships could be solved in three simple words:
STOP ACCEPTING THEM.
Seriously. The reason that this (mal)practice continues to plague our profession is that there is always some young architect – usually who’s still on mommy and daddy’s bankroll – who is willing to accept an unpaid position. All of these comments are focusing on the firms offering the unpaid positions, yet I submit that these people are every bit as much to blame.
Case in point: I graduated from with an M.Arch last year from a top school. I was offered a job in Cambridge at Kyu Sung Woo Architects, for which I was told up front would be 60-70 hours a week. The salary offered was $25,000. I was told not to even bothering asking for more because they had a GSD graduate offering to accept the position FOR FREE. I turned down the offer, and I left there upset with the firm, but more than anything, wanting to break that GSD student’s neck.
This continues to be a massive problem because we are the ones doing it to ourselves. Sorry, but if you are working as an unpaid intern, I not only have no sympathy for you, but I hope you know how much you’re screwing other people over.
If someone is willing to do it for free, then it’s not worth paying for. True.
I need some help. I understand most of what everyone is saying, however I don’t feel emotionally invested to stop unpaid internships. But I want to, and I’m serious. With so many people disagreeing with the ways of unpaid internships, there has to be something to it. I personally work as an unpaid intern. I just finished my second year, but i’ve only ever “built” 3 buildings (as class projects) during that time. I also get do very well in school. Several firms I talked to before my current internship said they “weren’t hiring at my experience level”, therefore, I may have undervalued my usefulness, since I had only been in school 2 years. I saw the unpaid internship as a way to raise my architectural worth. However, whether it be ignorance or stupidity, i’m not understanding unpaid internships impact on architectural jobs as a whole. Can people dissect my story or run the job thing by me maybe more simply?
Here’s a proposal, with the fact that ArchDaily is the world’s most heavily visited architecture website and has garnered a reputation for offering great articles relating to multiple aspects of the realm of architecture, why doesn’t ArchDaily begin to post articles highlighting the firms that have been taking part in the highly illegal practice of unpaid internships?
Some of the firms that have not been reference by name directly, but have been alluded to as being famous and well respected may take a harder look at their professional ethics, or lack thereof, after they have finally been outed for such acts. In order to end this practice we need to attack this problem on multiple fronts, that means more than just simply telling experienced starved students and recent grads to decline an unpaid position. The official organizations have started to file records of misconduct, the AIAS has a campaign to discourage students from condoning, why not have the critics and information sources for our industry start turning a spotlight onto the firms themselves and give them the much needed added PR pressure to correct their wrongs?
Please, to the staff at ArchDaily, and at other websites, consider this option.
It’s a tough call. I can’t comment on unpaid interns bringing down the profession. However I think I am what you would call an intern. Well considering it. We don’t really have that in Australia. However I have been considering doing unpaid work experience (what we call it) to get a bit more experience to land the jobs. In my home town (Adelaide, Australia) there isn’t enough graduate jobs. I have probably seen about 10-20 actual graduate jobs advertised in the last two years. Add that with probably about 100 students graduating each year there are too many graduates and not enough work. Most of the jobs require experience but how do you get it? I think however here unpaid work can help towards our registration.
Andy,
If you’re in Adelaide, (as I am), don’t wait for the positions to be advertised. Walk into the offices where you wish to get work experience and advertise yourself.
A lot of the offices in Adelaide are holding back on advertising for graduates because of the uncertainty in the industry.
Send your CV to every single office, specify that you are looking for work experience and then follow up with a phone call a couple of days later.
Good luck…
I had a discussion with another student at the firm I work at about this. I’m going into third year, and he’s going into second; We’re both paid for what we do, and both agree that those who aren’t paid have no motivation to work hard, and take no ownership in the company or in their work. I appreciate the fact that where I work allows me to work at a variety of tasks including CAD and design work, and hope other firms provide similar opportunities.
I believe that if you’re a good worker someone will hire you. Employers need to understand that low-quality, unpaid positions will attract low-quality sub-standard workers, who otherwise can’t et paid jobs. I was tempted once to take an unpaid position, but simply could not afford to.
I was disgusted when someone at work joked about how Ghery make’s interns pay to join his firm.
I completely agree that it’s unfair for graduate work for free even though they, sometimes, have to do more work than official worker. It hurts unrich people who want to pursue their dream in architecture, cuz they cannot even support themself for a living.
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As interns, we are “studying” under practicing architects, but we also add value to their businesses by doing what – perhaps limited – tasks we’re able to do. As an intern, I can redline drawings, make edits to drawings, draft specification sets (ugh), take site verification measurements / documentation, and draft design ideas when I’m given the opportunity. These are all value-adding skills.
The first week of work may have come at a cost to my employer, as I was learning their front-end CAD software (archiCAD vs. Revit/Rhino/Sketchup/AutoCAD taught at my University). But after that week, quite frankly, I’ve been working for $9 an hour (verses the $25-30 hourly wage of graduate architects here) full-time doing everything my senior co-workers do for less than a third of the cost to my employer.
Contrary to what you are saying, employers cannot demand that intern labor go uncompensated. If they need assistance but are unwilling to pay for the labor, they should work harder themselves or take on fewer projects.
I’ve had the luxury to complete a dual degree in Business Administration and Architecture, and I can tell you, first hand, that good ethical business practice involves compensating your employees regardless of emerging trends in the field. Not to mention, it is illegal for employers to offer unpaid intern positions.
I’m a retired professional and entrepreneur who is still learning inspite my business understanding. If some one adds value to your business and you can not afford to pay them you have no business understanding. There are two ways to compete, quality or quantity, price accordingly.