Malaysia Pavilion for Shanghai World Expo 2010
Construction for the Malaysia Pavilion for Shanghai World Expo began a couple of weeks ago. The 3,000-square-meter pavilion will be like a traditional and high Malaysian hut. The facade of the pavilion will be made from a combination of palm oil and plastic, which will be recycled for other constructions after Expo.
The country will showcase its natural landscape and the solidarity of its different ethnic groups with the theme “One Malaysia — City Harmonious Living.” Malaysia has 47 ethnic groups, who live comfortably together in urban and rural areas. The country would highlight the harmonious conditions and interactivity between cities and villages, Malaysian Tourism Minister Ng Yen Yen said.
Visitors will be able to pitch and putt at an indoor golf area in the two-story pavilion. The pavilion would hold lucky draws on key days during the Expo, such as August 31, Malaysia’s national day, and May 31 when China and Malaysia set up diplomatic relationships, Ng said.
More images and a video after the break.
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Hi Malaysian,
Dengan sukacitanya saya ingin memaklumkan kepada kerajaan malaysia setingi tiggi terima kasih kerana mempromosikan rumah MINANGKABAU (asal dari Indonesia)… Read More
di World Expo China 2010 di tapak kepunyaan Malaysia.
Dengan itu saya turut berterima kasih kepada Dr Ng Yen Yen kerana mempromosikan budaya Indonesia(MINANGKABAU) di negara China .
Oleh yang demikian, Indonesia tidak akan membelanja dalam World Expo ini kerana Malaysia dengan sebesar hatinya menderma 19 juta untuk mempromosikan Indonesia pavilion.
Bah kata ….ini semua memanfaatkan seluruh asia
…design dari china, pelarasan dari Taiwan,dibina oleh China,dibayar oleh Malaysia dan manfaat kepada Indonesia.SYABAS MALAYSIA!
SYABAS INDOMAS!
Sekian terima kasih,
MINANGKABAU INDONESIA
….a comment found from the link below “http://weechookeong.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/the-minister-of-tourism-why-venturepharm-asia-sdn-bhd-so-special/”
you will be wiser to translate this to english on an international english forum, if not, everyone will just ignore your comment.
Looks like a US I-95 Mahi Mahi restaurant, or worst a pop glossy version of traditional representation…You choose.
HERE GOES AGAIN…. THE INDONESIA WANNABE!!! CHECK OUT THE VIDEO AND LISTEN CAREFULLY AT THE 0:17, they said: “INSPIRED BY MINANGKABAU TRADITIONAL ARCHITECTURE…??????????”
STOP STEALING OUR CULTURE!!!!! MINANGKABAU IS THE AUTHENTIC CULTURE OF INDONESIA, IT’S FROM WEST SUMATRA.
WHAT NEXT MALAYSIA?? I WAS COOL AT FIRST WHEN YOU STEALING OUR BATIK AND TRADITIONAL DANCE…. AND NOW OUR ARCHITECTURE!!!!!
i think it would be inappropriate to say “steal” someone’s culture. after all the south east asian countries all started from the MALAY race. including Indonesia and Malaysia.
this building shows us that malaysia doesn’t have any good sense of their local architecture. this pavilion was adopted from minangkabau culture. For your Information, Minangkabau is originally a legacy of indonesian culture an malaysia doesn’t have any right to adopt this culture as their own.
as indonesian architect, i felt so upset with this provocative action. i guess that malaysia doesn’t have enough architecture idea resources until he adopt indonesia’s original architecture as their own.
this is what happens when you get a pharmaceutical company to to erect your nation’s architectural showcase to the world
this is what happens when you get someone who was once rumored to possess an australian pr to be your tourism minister
this is what happens when you let a tendering process riddled with controversy and question marks to go through and make its way to the shanghai world expo
and thank god this only happens in malaysia
in a way the pavilion is quite a true and honest representation of what’s happening in malaysia.
the pavilion is very malaysian!malaysia boleh!
cruz credo!
How about that national pride you got malaysia? The ones that look like giant twin-cocks? What a bad taste of architecture really, rubbish. They still need a bridge to shore each others up, eh? Limp dick! Yes exactly, just like the ppl and their small wieners. Got nothing creative, all about stealing, mega pathetic!
i ve got nothing against you if you scold us for stealing minangkabau from you/your country… but please visit the twin tower again… put aside all the controversial issue, and look from your personal (if not architecture) point of view, if that is a great building or not… i think it is. phew, i am glad to know that the beautiful bridge has such a technical function.
yeah, aside that indonesia doesnt even have a modern monument to be proud of. all that it have is some dusty temples.
HEY V, I’m also Indonesian… but I think it’s not necessary to talk like that in this decent and International forum.
We can defend our culture as much as w can, but please don’t open a door for a bad image.
tank you
looks like minangkabau traditional house btw
Wow, I never relaized there was such a rivalry.
This thread is like being at yankee stadium when they’re playing the red sox.
we didn’t start it, even their petronas tower stole our concept of Prambanan Temple.
and Batik?? it is an Indonesian for sure.
@ Ray: they did stated that they took the inspiration from Minangkabau traditional architecture.
nuff said
petronas tower derived from the HINDU TEMPLE of Prambanan Tower??… lucky we have only two of it…
i see many similar churches around in europe… who copied who?… or uncivilized-ly put, who stole whose idea?…
man, does it matter?….
by the way, you should be proud that ‘your’ towers were used as a reference…unfortunately in this case, not so… the pattern of the petronas building was derived from islamic geometrical shape. rotated squares stacked on each other…
and fyi, the architecture of java is basically the legacy of many successive influences by the Indians, the Persians and the Arabs, the Chinese, and the Europeans… so, who is copying who….?…
influnce is a basic thing in general, the fact that malaysia and indonesia has a very similar language proves that culturally we are related… for goodness sake…
fyi, just in case you do not know, fries are not french, they are believed to be belgians …so what???…
Big, get over yourself.
wow, nicely said hp. at last somebody civilized enough to say something like that.
if you want to argue about copying, might as well tear down those buildings that take reference from the greek and roman temples…
hai big,
i think u should surf around youtube looking for the design process n conceptual stage before the construction start.
how is cesar pelli and our PM that time discuss about the tower design
yup big..i dont know about the petronas towers..
but, for this one..enough is said, they did say ‘minangkabau traditional arch’.
who knows maybe there are traces of it in malaysia..
but stay away from ‘batik’ and ‘tari pandet’..
Is a malasian fast-food?
ya.. is a thing that can eat
geez…how shallow can the malaysian government get?…..this is evidence that the decision makers for the design are ignorant of the culture/identity of what should actually be a forward looking/visionary proposal, akin to what was thought to be built when they conceived putrajaya city…not this ‘minangkabau’ crap….
I’m sorry to have said this….because I’m malaysian and I know we can do WAY better than this crap.
poor malaysia,,,,!!
tsk, why dont they explore them self??
why should they promoted our Minangkabau house?
“mempromosikan rumah MINANGKABAU (asal dari Indonesia)”??
bad habit,,
promoted other nation’s architecture, in THEIR SITE (in shanghai expo), under THEIR NAME (malaysian pavilion).
similarity or clearly stealing!
your’s?
arent you even a minang decendant?
i’m sorry idiotREDindons, i’m not minang decendant,
my word “our” is refers to indonesian’s,
still, i keep searching the connection between malaysia and minangkabau…negeri sembilan and padang.
(maybe there somethn that i dont know, i shouldn’t judge that soon)
according to the video “Work on Malaysia Pavilion begins” in youtube, the minister of tourism malaysia said that it is not typically minangkabau,which is two buffalo horns, while malaysia’s is a tilted rooftop… so? is it?
PLEASE READ what akimizaru and ellen said.
you just proved yourself foolish.
kezia, PLEASE READ what akimizaru and ellen said above.
you just proved yourself foolish
this is evil
WHAT A PITY……..POLITICAL INFLUENCED ARCHITECTURE
文化落后的国家 只有强调民族风格才能建立点自信。
马来西亚 尼泊尔和中国馆都是这样
文化有先进和落后之分吗？文化、文明、民俗文化、民族文化。。。。
文化不存在落后，只能说明你思想落后。这样说你的国家？~~
it wasn’t political matter, it is a cultural an architectural matter. this the fact that this pavilion is “over-inspired” by another countries traditional houses *i don’t want to use word steal, even they do*.
another fact, not politic who always influence the architecture, but architecture who always make influence to the politic. this issue was one of them, Malaysian behavior which is over inspired by another country make the political issue getting worse.
can malaysian stop it? hmm.. i guess not, it is not architecture or politic matter, but, it was a mentality matter which never change.
sorry, if you were not agree, prove it by your architecture
yes i disagree.
architecture should influence politics. yes. but this require the effort of the entire body of malaysian architects.
in this case, politics influenced architecture. and if you are an architect, you should know many other examples of this as part of your architecture education. its not the most ideal scenario, but it happened.
I find your comment to be somewhat rude and insulting on an extreme shallow level. You are implying that this is a mental issue with the whole culture of Malaysia while you failed to understand that the culture of any society, is constantly changing and evolving.
An apology would be appreciated or else you are just a somewhat shallow person to discuss with.
The pattern on the roof is a nice detail. That’s it.
Wow, some Indonesians are apparently a little miffed!
Just a little bit of historical info: there have been Minangkabau people in Negeri Sembilan (Malaysia) since the 15th century. I daresay, then, that Minangkabau architectural heritage is as much a part of the modern nation of Malaysia as it is a part of the modern nation of Indonesia.
from the judgement made by indonesian above, i would say that they not have very mature architecture minded.Raising up not-to-standard issue here and also always self-claim this and that.Whats your problem?Did you learn any history of architecture?The globalization of architecture civilization?What a narrow minded with your people even there is some comment from professional architect.Its look like you try to become a founder in architecture by dress up issue of temple,batik and so on.What a boring matters.
Well said. It really becomes boring when people run around gnawing on a bone and barring teeth like some wild pack animals.
Architecture and preserving authenticity? Please, wake up and stop being so naive.
So what if such and such and so and so copies etc. and etc. Let them! People who replicate and reproduce something without capturing the substance or fundamentals will never ‘get’ the essense that makes a project in a league of their own. The best of us will no doubt look at it and realise in an instance that what is produced will merely be the execution of an inferior idea. And this is not just in reference to the project above too. It’s applicable to all the so-called contemporary fruit salad architecture that gets slapped on all the glossies and design websites.
And they way some of you comment leavers keep on going on and on about who stole from whom shows that you…probably don’t get it either.
I couldnt agree with you and akimizaru more.
Let me guess inside is a theme restaurant with minnie dress on a Malaysian outfit, hahahaha, this is not architecture this is las vegas meets disney meets pseduo world fair, the worst world fair ever, I miss Seville 92 :)
using a traditional house in malaysia as an idea for a pavilion is a great idea. But this is clearly not well executed.
malaysian or indonesian, either, I don’t feel it is a good piece of architecture
well malaysian or indonesian indigenous architecture is not known for its fancy shape or form, but how it adapt to its surrounding, and environment
this is a Pavilion in a World Expo, right? a representative architecture extracted from its context. what do you mean with surrounding, and environment in this case?
Yet another travesty for the Expo. Every single entry I’ve seen so far was horrible. This might just top it.
Even ignoring the historic/cultural part… just LOOK AT THIS THING. It would be horrible even for a Vegas themed fast food restaurant.
panza do you think you good in architecture, you’r so swanky. furthermore if your country have a good architecture, you arent part of it.
hahahahahahaha….i now you will offended, thats my purpose.sory.
This is also similar to the Thai pavilion for this Expo, not particularly in style but in its pathetic struggle for authentic national identity.
While some countries are fortunate to have chance looking at this World Expo as a platform experimenting with technology or creativity, most South East Asian countries look at it as a tourism fair by continually repeating their exotic styles. Consequently, the point discussing who stole from who is missing the point. Not simply because they are based on the same region but most importantly they can not escape the image initially imposed upon them since colonial time.
This orientalism now is in reverse in which the image projected to the east is reproduced sending back to the West (and the world) again and again. They can be only superficial representations of imagined national identities. There is no essence to be discovered. At best, beyond styles, these pavilions represent well the corrupt political processes of the region.
Architecture wise… i don’t think it’s a good piece of architecture.
Culture wise… it really doesn’t matter whether Minangkabau culture is Malaysian or Indonesian. What’s with this idea of stealing? what’s with this Indonesia-wannabe? The biggest joke of all time. Who on earth wants to be born in this under-developed poverty-stricken country? How funny. Many countries in this world do share the same cultural root. The essential point is how they move on to develop their countries. Just look at the state of Indonesia and you’ll know how the mentality of the people has led to the pathetic state of their own country. Poor thing.
sad….we keep coming up with the same old modernised traditional house every time we need to showcase our country to others….its high time for a bit of originality….there are many, many cultural references in the country that could be used to create a good building we can all be proud of….
AND THIS IS WUT I GET FOR EID MUBARAK??
RASE HAMPE GAK LA NAK BRAYE TAHUN NI
I don’t know what is going on between malaysia and indonesia, but i can clear see that malaysia have a crisis identity problem.
i wonder VIETNAM have a pavillon in ShangHAi expo ?? i dont listen for a competition for it
Malaysia is such a damn not creative at all……yeaakk !!
is not malaysian that are not creative. but the company that was appointed are not. very not creative. and BTW the project is being awarded to those that are politically close to the tourism minister. some say it. but I wont judge
Dear Malaysia,
Please do more justice to architecture…!
Malaysian.
Dear Mio,
i wish to try. but it is not the work of one person.
Malaysian Architect.
hello, i’m indonesian.and i hv a few things to say.
i think we’re being traumatized by the things malaysia did towards indonesia heritage. it didn’t happen once. i think people surely know which culture and heritage their country own. and claiming what is not theirs is surely showing a not respectable behaviour for their fellow ASIAN country. i think Indonesia and Thailand also have a very similar culture, but why didn’t we ever encounter a cultural problem ? because we know how to respect and value our relationship.
i simply cannot judge whether this Malaysia Pavilion is another act of stealing. Because im not an expert on that. i realize that there’s a lot of common theme between Indonesia and Mayasia on culture and heritage. But i think that there’s a clear line whether it’s ours or theirs. Like Batik, UNESCO finally decided that it’s Indonesia’s cultural heritage, and Pendet for your info, i think never been assimilating with any other group because Balinese are well known for it’s cultural guarding and very introverted regarding to their cultural heritage.
i think each country has their own identical cultural history, that’s why we have our own nationality costumes… and we’re wise enough to see the difference between them.
why are we trying to be the same when we can enrich the world with our own uniqueness ?
PLEASE READ what akimizaru and ellen said above.
you just proved yourself foolish
Also, you NEED to travel to Thailand and do more research on Thailand. Indonesian culture and Thai culture and completely different. This is why the two countries rarely encounter cultural conflict.
This is not an act of stealing. This is an act of poor judgment and poor design.
“i think each country has their own identical cultural history, that’s why we have our own nationality costumes… and we’re wise enough to see the difference between them.” – please rephrase this statement, as it doesn’t quite make sense.
“why are we trying to be the same when we can enrich the world with our own uniqueness ?” – this is call GLOBALIZATION as the world grew closer with better communication and development. The next step below globalization is REGIONALISM, read up on that.
such a pity tranformation..
and a pity resource..
the pavillion must give image about their country. not from their neighbour country. i saw other pavillion design in archdaily. and some of them can give me an image about their country..
i’m a malaysian and i’m embarrassed by this. the architect of this building is apparently not a very bright one.
it is ugly in many ways. not to say physically ugly, but concept and identity wise. i expected some modernization of my country’s culture. but this is like venturi
and saying this country steal that country’s culture, it is damn immature. furthermore, indonesia is just a freaking few hundred miles from malaysia. and they were once ruled together by some other country. shouldn’t there be some similarities?
and as a student, i think alot more of my mates could come up with something better.
We are living next door .. Of course there will be a mix of culture morons ..
Just like China and Japan and Korea ..
They have some similarities in their cultures too ..
OH MY GOD, is it Indonesian pavilion??? this pavilion is completely identically as Indonesian traditional architecture. if I were a malaysian I would be so shy to admit it as their pavilion. I’m sorry but I’m telling the truth you are stealing guys..
there are a lot of history and culture goes on for ages between malaysia and indonesia.
tats y for some cases they are really sensitive and tis sud be understood.. its just not architecture but also covering other hot issues such as culture, political, etc. which is a very sensitive topics between those two nations
what kind of Goverment…?copy – paste…?
PLEASE READ what akimizaru and ellen said above.
you just proved yourself foolish
malaysia..apakah kalian tidak mampu??
copy again..you are too poor malaysia
PLEASE READ what akimizaru and ellen said above.
you just proved yourself foolish.
STOP with the childish bashing of one another.
Im a malaysian and I actually think the design insn’t too bad.
Yes, minangkabau is definitely more presence in Indonesia than Malaysia. and Yes, Malaysia failed at erecting a building that is more representative of the country but instead they chose the image of a small minority whose history may not be local, but nonetheless regional.
No country is more superior than another, they may be a step ahead or 2 steps behind in many aspects. If you guys want to go into the whole debate on cultural identity and architcture, look at Esplanade Theater in Singapore which is suppose to be inspired by THEIR country’s fruit, Durian. But clearly any Malaysian, Indonesian or even Thai would know that Singapore doesn’t even have sufficient land space for housing or need i say, a Durian plantation?
Most pavilion will be torn down after down after the exhibition, but Esplanade Theater is here to stay, and the Singaporeans has already claimed the durian as theirs. As a Malaysian I’m not too happy about this, but I’m glad they chose a regional image to help promote it on a global stage. The only thing I could say, is its a shame that my government didn’t do it first.
So if you Indonesian just want to complain and complain like a kid, DON’T. Becuase I will tell you this, why didn’t your government do it first? Yes, I think they are better image and design the Malaysia could have use, but plain naive complain that Malaysia just copied and pasted is not good enough.
mas2pek, by the explanation that you’ve made, i wonder, if you say that malaysian choose an image of their minority, isn’t it possible that in no longer time malaysian would chose the image of chinese, or indian culture as the representation of malaysia?
i hope you can explain it to me clearly.. we are humanized,rite? =)
I do not understand by what you meant by “…isn’t it possible that in no longer time…”
Are you referring to that Malaysia no longer choose the image of Chinese or Indian culture to represent Malaysia? So instead they chose a non-local but regional image (of Islamic background) to represent?
Yes and no.
Yes: Malaysian government is stubborn. We all know that. It is not a perfect system and it is somewhat biased. In fact no government is perfect.
No: I believe the government system is capable of change. Its a tough uphill challenge, but it is not impossible and it requires the input of all its citizen and time.
They cannot choose an upfront Chinese image, because the expo is host in China. They cannot choose an upfront Indian image, because everyone know Indian is India. This also just happened to be inline with the current political situation in Malaysia, where the Chinese and Indian are treated as a minority despite their population numbers and the real minority, such as minangkabau, are given priority.
I do not know why did not choose the native malay image.
Please bear in mind, this project is financed by Tourism Malaysia, ie, the Malaysian Government. All I can say is the architect failed to convinced them of a more suitable image for the country.
I do not understand by what you meant by “…isn’t it possible that in no longer time…”
Are you referring to that Malaysia no longer choose the image of Chinese or Indian culture to represent Malaysia? So instead they chose a minority image?
No.
There’s definitely some politic involved in this. I believe the government system is capable of change. Its a tough uphill challenge, but it is not impossible and it requires the input of all its citizen and time.
They cannot choose an upfront Chinese image, because the expo is host in China. They cannot choose an upfront Indian image, because everyone know Indian is India.
I do not know why did not choose the native malay image.
Please bear in mind, this project is financed by Tourism Malaysia, ie, the Malaysian Government. All I can say is the architect failed to convinced them of a more suitable image for the country.
i like your opinion about this stuff, i`m an indonesian, but doesnt really want to argue about things at all, i think, indonesians have the right to claim whats theirs, and malaysians too can argue, indonesian and malayan have a really close relationship of culture after all (indonesian are both proto malayan and deutro malayan) and reading about minang people living in malaysia on 15th century..
i guess we`re all are modernist anyway, creating new culture may be my ideal solution
For all the INDONESIAN and MALAYSIAN who wanted to post something after this, PLEASE READ what akimizaru and ellen said above.
Otherwise, you may just prove yourself foolish.
First of all, this is the ugliest pavilion I have seen. sorry for all tax payers.
1. Money – huge money spend for the roof, have not idea what they do with the big and narrow attic space. Playing golf? Don’t kidding
2. Roof – I can’t imagine someone to put a big coconut trees & beach painting on the roof gable, Pudu Jail’s probably looks better than this. I’m sure I can google a better image. The roof looks like translucent in the night perspective. What material is it? Sorry illustrator, you have to change you mapping. I can’t tell if the pattern related to Malaysia arts, isn’t songket or geometric pattern better?
3. Landscape – any landscape consultant for this project? Really don’t know if coconut trees can grow in Shanghai. Maybe they need to use fake coconut trees, with colorful lighting.
4. People – in the perspective, only 3 peoples in the main entrance… others standing at the square and looking at this ugly pavilion. Means nobody want to visit this pavilion, very sad perspective.
5. Architecture – you can tell this this is not a pure Minangkabau architecture – wrong proportion, no ‘hairy’ roof, no sharp pointing peak, no no no… this is really bad design. Philip Pavilion by Le Corbusier drawn by hand 50 years ago can win this uglier pavilion by computer.
:(
looks like a strip mall fast food restaurant….horrible and grotesque
what a shallow interpretation.
where are all the young and good designers and architect in Malaysia?
to all muslims here happy eidul-fitri.
put aside all our differences, malaysian and indonesian.
I dont understand why Minangkabau.
Why didnt Malaysia actually duplicate/learn whats from Melaka strait, or Sarawak – long houses.
Why must Minangkabau? I dont see much Malaysia Minangkabau houses around.
Failed tourism product. A shame for Malaysia.
Malaysia has always been and still is in a struggle to define what is ‘Malaysian Architecture’. Being a melting pot of cultures, it is sometimes rather hard to amalgamate features and the characteristics of the various cultures into 1 entity that represents ‘Malaysian Architecture’.
Furthermore, the Southeast Asian (SEA) countries such as Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore, Philippines and etc do not have a very long history in architecture compared with the Romans, Greeks, Italians, Chinese which helped define and shape their form of architecture since centuries ago.
Although different, but cultures and beliefs in Southeast Asian countries are very much similar. Our cultural roots have always been around each other, developing from the original into what that defines the individual cultures now. So i guess even if another country’s building or culture looks or is like what your country has doesn’t really matter. It is how the country developed it’s individuality in terms of culture that is more important.
Coming back to the design of the Malaysian Pavilion, I think it is a poor representation of Malaysia. I do not agree in literally taking elements of cultures to generate a design. But rather, the essence of it would be much better to be used to design the pavilion. In this case, the essence of the traditional Malay hut?? But then again, is that really Malaysian architecture ??
who cares?
It’s amazing how educated professionals continue to misunderstand the difference between Preserving History and Trying to Recreate History. This is a big step backward for the architectural community in Malaysia.
where are the Malaysian architects, Datuk Ken Yeang, Jimmy Lim, Hijjas kasturi, GDP Architects, Archicnter, Lilian Tay…….
Are we facing design crisis now…!??
Few words for politicians and architects
I would like to quote a sentence from Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s famous 1962 memo, “The development of an official style must be avoided. Design must flow from the architectural profession to the Government, and not vice versa.”
Dasar pandang ke timur or simply translation is “Look East Policy”
My own interpretation is to learn from countries/places like Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan or Singapore…is to set the field free from political influence. please learn from Bertrand Delanoe, president obama , politicians who really know architecture, care architure and believe architects.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s famous 1962 memo, “The development of an official style must be avoided. Design must flow from the architectural profession to the Government, and not vice versa.”
learn with them modestly with an open mind PLEASE!
This is a nice building,, Ive seen it in Indonesia, It must be designed by Indonesian architect,,,
“…Ive seen it in Indonesia, It must be designed by Indonesian architect,,,”
a very very shallow minded comment.
mas2pek, i am having hard time to find what akimizaru and ellen have said.
could you please help me to find those two comments ?
thank you,
ajs
sure, press Control+F and type in akimizaru or ellen, and you hsould be able to find it.
Malaysia certainly has excellent architects and internationally well known design firms but their designs were not chosen or even considered for political or other selfish reasons only. I have seen some other designs that were submitted and they are truely great. Although they were submitted, I heard that they were not even called to present it before this Minakabau design was chosen showing that no matter what, the Ministry of Tourism has decided to choose this Minakabau design. This design apparently was not even done by a Malaysian.
hey guys…i dont know about the petronas towers..
but, for this one..enough is said, they did say ‘minangkabau traditional arch’.
who knows maybe there are traces of it in malaysia..
but stay away from ‘batik’ and ‘tari pandet’..c’mon..
1st of all, i feel shame about the our pavilion that it didnt show the nature of our multi-culture and wonder how can our country presenting such a sux looking building to the world. Morever why are we stealing such an ugly architecture from other country!? Yet, is indon invited for an Indonesia Pavilion in this expo? would like to see how great indon can do or they are just good smuggler construction workers.
First of all, your English is atrocious.
my apology for over reacting, all these topics are so, so provocative…
oooo god…again and again..just create your own Malaysia, dont steal anyting from us again..If you think you’r more smart than Us so why dont you create someting by yourself..dont copy or steal our culture..you must have your own, your identity that you can proud of..for me I’m proud for being Indonesian..do u know why..it because whether we have so many diffrent culture but we are respect each other, we respect your culture so dont let us Down by stealing ours..okay….salam persaudaraan..Go Indonesia Go
correct me if im wrong, isnt it true at one point in Indonesian history where the celebration of Chinese New Year is illegal? and that Chinese Indonesians are to have Indonesian names and not allowed to keep their Chinese?
Indonesian is not better off in respect for other culture than Malaysia I would say.
Also, PLEASE READ what akimizaru and ellen said above.
you just proved yourself foolish.
@mas2pek
you criticize but no difference with the flamers.
“…..isnt it true at one point in Indonesian history where the celebration of Chinese New Year is illegal? and that Chinese Indonesians are to have Indonesian names and not allowed to keep their Chinese?….”
true, but it’s the past, when Soeharto ruled.
It’s sooooooooooooooooo…. more than 10 years ago dude.
Come with fresh one okay! :D
and this one is fresh! ‘batik’ and ‘pendet’ case is fresh.
Lynxluna,
10 years ago is still fairly recent compare to the history of Minangkabau for example. The point made here is to learn from the past and mistakes, no country is perfect.
‘indonesian guy’ made a comment that Indonesia “respect each other” in term of culture and hence implying that Indonesia is better than Malaysia.
I counteract that statement by saying Indonesia is not better than Malaysia with the case of Chinese Indonesians.
The point made here is to stop the silly thinking that one country is better than the other country. I dont believe Malaysia is better than Indonesia and neither should any Indonesian believe they are better than Malaysian. It is a somewhat backward mentality of silly arrogance.
the batik case and pendet case if fresh indeed, i do not want to go into the details as i do not know much about it.
So Im not a ‘flamer’. Im pointing out to the ‘flamers’ (including you) out there how silly they look when they make a comment that is lack of knowledge and judgment.
yeah its 10 years ago, and…. it’s ENDED ALREADY, so its irrelevant be discussed today rite? even the law has been demolished for good.
”
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the batik case and pendet case if fresh indeed, i do not want to go into the details as i do not know much about it.
So Im not a ‘flamer’. Im pointing out to the ‘flamers’ (including you) out there how silly they look when they make a comment that is lack of knowledge and judgment….
”
include me? when you admit you ‘dont know much about it’, but you say I am the one who is ignorant?
Wow! you’re weird dude.
Lynxluna, you seemed to have missed the point, what mas2pek is saying is that the person before him made a statement that isnt completely true, and the example mas2pek used is the Soeharto. Yes it has ended already, but the it is relevant in this discussion as its used as an example only.
and while he admit is doesnt much information regarding certain topics, at least he is contributing productively into the discussion in the field that he knows, as oppose to you, you criticised him, but you mentioned ‘batik’ and ‘pendet’ is fresh and im guessing you are saying its more relavent, if so, SUPPORT YOURSELF.
you are indeed a flamer yourself as you did not contribute anything that’s solid to this debate.
so the weird one here is you.
I don’t know nothing about architect.but as per this is pavilion on world expo, I could said; usually exhibitor tried to show their profile on exhibition. By showing this minangkabau architect is same malaysia claiming minangkabau as they. That’s why some indonesia getting upset.minangkabau n malaysia huge different,thou they are similiar. Most people in malaysia are from minangkabau,no wonder they have same culture. For this one,we don’t have argue.
Yes,culture are develop n adjust as much as people travelling. People in this comment were right, Indonesia also copyin some european or indian, and chinesse culture. but if u look very clear, indonesia also said; well.. We got inspired n influence by european. Indeed,our ancient people admitted that’s some dance,or architect are influence by hindu in indian or china. We never ashame to declare our national monument are inspired by eifel but we also put our identity in their.culture also change n develop,culture can’t be claim by one community to community. Don’t forget,Indonesia have more than 350 culture,which everytime people from region to another region also bring n influence their culture to another region culture. That’s why u’ll see BAtik all over indonesia,but every region have batik own authencity.
If u said indonesia doesn’t understand about culture assimilation,then we have fight each province since ages! Look at jogja n bali,they are quite same but they are different.its we are believe that culture moving,develop n adjust with new region.we are believe,what make culture different is by people who lived it.everyone is unique,that’s makes culture unique.culture develop by the people.
And sometimes, indonesian forget that half of people who living in malaysia are indonesian.that’s why most of indonesian culture is there.that’s why our government never have problem with malaysian claiming.that’s why indonesian are very quite n acceptable with dozen culture claim by malaysia,specially when malaysia admit culture from sumatera.
But,why these days there are big intense in indonesia about malaysia claiming. It is because malaysia NEVER SAID THOSE CULTURE are INFLUENCE or INSPIRIED by indonesia.indeed,they go to court by put some trademark of copyright about culture. With this,malaysia itself stop culture assimilation.with this malaysia denying that culture its develop,moving,transforming. They failed understand culture can’t be claim by law on just one country! It is makes our people can’t creative produce batik,coz everytime we produce batik we need pay royalty to malaysia. That’s PITY!! While batik has spread until africa,either africa have their own batik. But africa adore that africa batik are influence by indonesia batik. And we are find with africa,as much as with thailand.it is the bigest concern of indonesian people, specially media. Can’t u imagine,small people who have been living with batik since ages should stop creating batik just because Malaysia already put copyright onto it? Can u imagine,those small people should pay million dollar royalty to malaysia for they own effort to produce batik while they only sell batik for 100.000 rupiah?? C’MON!! Get up!! U cant make culture as tools to enrich ur pocket!! And while we try to save this people in UN,malaysia show those fuckin shit law royalty! But when we bet malaysia to produce batik with traditional way,they give us shit machine that we called stample. Even african,knows that’s not origin batik. But law has made,indonesia lose this way. And yes,we aren’t rich as malaysia,we still fight with poverty.that’s why we failed to take court by this law.we don’t have much money to buy copyright,we don’t have british to help us won in law.but we have creative people,we found our way to make the world admit batik is world heritage culture which origin from indonesia. In this case, we want teach malaysia that U CAN ADMITTED one culture as urs, coz culture is moving,culture is developing!! See wat happened with batik.
Back to this pavilion; the article show that malaysia not a single word admitted that this creation are influence by minangkabau.and I can’t blame the anger of indonesian for this. Well,this is not the very first time.
I remember my journey to one of international expo. Malaysia show angklung in their pavilion,but they can’t play it. They don’t even understand the angklung meaning! If angklung really from malaysia or at least has been adjust by indonesian angklung,they will know about it. I give u an example with gamelan. Thailand also have gamelan, but they said; yes we are influence with indonesia.but we have our own way to play it. We have our own philosophy about our gamelan. That’s why Indonesian never have problem with thailand. As indonesian,I am proud to see thailand play gamelan,african wearing batik,european ate nasi goreng,satay, or japanesse dancing pendet. I am proud knowing australian have they own way to perfrom wayang.it is show the culture movement,culture developing,culture break the political differences.
Many european learn indonesian tradiosional dance,and many of them collaborate it with european dance.
A true person who apreciate culture will always admit the culture origin,never be ashame declare they got influence by another culture.this is what our father teach us.
Malaysia has their own culture yes! Malaysia have their own uniqueness yes! But malaysia will never be true culture country as long as they never appreciatte others culture.
If you guys said indonesia n malaysia have common,specially in language. So u guys should said,india also have common with us,so does chinesse n arab. Because indonesia very much influence by indian,chinesse,arab and yet european.but we then creating our own culture. Such as indonesia language are influence with sanskrit,indeed it is indonesia ancient language,then it is assimilated with native who speak local language,and yet melayu,english n arab flattering us to adjust into indonesia language. We make our culture by influence other culture. We are not ashame,though we are proud with our creativity!
Some people said,indonesian is stupid by this problem. Italy n france has been ages fighting about culture,scotland n irish n british still haven’t found away to solve culture problem. But what makes finally they lived harmony? Between them never take a court about culture. Can u imagine what would france do if italy take a court about WINE??what spain reaction if they should pay to france everytime they produce wine?
We never be so selfish about culture. We never be stingy to not teach others about our culture. We never be very closed mind to not accept culture transforming.
By the way,if petronas is inspire by prambanan it is coz culture moving,indeed the architect of petronas is indonesian or at least his/she grand grand father is indonesian.
And speaking about architect,my architect friend ever told me, the building that she designed will show the identity of the architect.just like culture,its always influence by others but always have to show the identity of the architect and the building owner.so,I assume this pavilion,so does others malaysian building is made by indonesian architect.no offense malaysia,but u gotta to know Many of indon have brilliant idea n creativity that’s been world class architecture.
i cant believe i actually bother reading through your essay. whilst you made some good points, you made some foolish points base on poor research and judgement.
“It is because malaysia NEVER SAID THOSE CULTURE are INFLUENCE or INSPIRIED by indonesia” – You failed to understand basic geography class (please go back to school).
Both countries are in the same geographic region whilst the origin of some culture/tribes of civilization maybe specific to a location, overtime its people spread to new settlement. Indonesia NEVER OWNED the minangkabau culture. their history originate to location that just so happened to be land governed by the indonesian government. it is the decentant of minangkabau that’s more the matter. and today, the decentants of the minangkabau are in both malaysia and indonesia, having said that, I dont think malaysia need to ask indonesia permission to use the minangkabau image.
your point about ‘culture’ as an element thats evolving and changing is a valid point. if thats the case, why do you get upset when people dont acknowledge its origin? In some cases, i would argued, the cuture may have evolved so much to the extent, that its no longer need to be related to its origin. You are saying as if Indonesia OWNED all these cutlures, and that one is allowed to use it as long as they acknowledge its from indonesia.
i do not understand your arguement about batik and i dont think it has any relevance in this forum.
It is wrong for any individual to think that their country is better or more superior than other country becuase no country is perfect.
Also, ALWAYS do your research, César Pelli, the architect behind petronas twin tower is from Argentina. He is not Indonesian as you said neither is his grand grand father.
Becuase if you do not do your reserach, and you ASSUME, it will always make you look like a big fool when you get it wrong.
I dont think a lot of indoensian architects is working in Malaysia and I dont think its an indonesian architect behind this pavillion. but you are welcome to prove me wrong provided you have the research to back you up.
again and again.I thought the BORING issue of copy-paste already finish but still exist here.Supposed to be this elegant architecture website we discuss something more interesting.Not a topic that relate to something political-cultural.
I alert that there is somebody who said that Petronas twin tower copied from Prambanan Temple? That type of statement already show about the level of maturity and thinking in architecture point of view.Why that statement so rubbish?Why no body say twin tower copied from La Sagrada Familia?Why no body said that Le Corbusier copied any master of vernacular traditional house in Asia?Thats why i said that u should learn about globalization in architecture civilization.Dont simply said copy-paste and others unmature point here.Why dont u critisize in term of form,materials,construction method,architectonic issues.
Dont show ur foolish thinking here. It will embrass urself and represent ur country’s people indirectly.
sorry, i don’t respect my own culture. pardon me for my typo.
pardon me if i am wrong, indonesian are corrupted right?
yes, they are. mas2pek you’re right. we are not better off in respect for other culture than Malaysia.
pertamax kah?
i think you must stop read history text book made by your umno goverment.. and why we must study geography to understand cultural issue.. for example there is million latin imigrants in US.. but i never see american say salsa or mariachi as american culture..
i think you must stop read history text book made by your umno goverment.. and why we must study geography to understand cultural issue.. for example there is million latin imigrants in US.. but i never see american say salsa or mariachi as american culture.. or maybe because i live in indonesia and has never been to america before.
Hi there,
What’s with all the arguing? i mean before you all leave any comments here, have you all really thought of the world expo?
the purpose of this expo is to bring the world together. and the theme is “a better city, a better life”. and no way the world will head a better life with ppl blaming each other for stuff that can never really be proven.
you all can criticize the malaysians for all you want, and malaysians can defend themselves for all they want. but at the end of the day, what do you all get from it? a certificate to certified that minangkabau comes from where?
to the malaysians, i do agree that malaysia did a poor job in this architechtural design, when there is alot more to choose to represent malaysia, but at least they will have a presence in the world.
and to the indonesians, i honestly do not know why tht the gov decided not to participate, but yet again, are you going to design a Minangkabau to represent Indonesia since there is a claim of its culture? if yes, it will probably looks something like tht and if its a no, thn why bother? you guys may definitely do better than the malaysians, but aint you glad the gov is saving the money for the benefit of its ppl?
nothing is original in this world except for what came naturally. arguing on can get us nowhere. why blame each other? if the blame game continues, why not blame our older generation for not putting their food on the ground to own the culture?
we as the younger generation should look forward. and if the culture belongs to you, look at the mirror and ask yourself if you are still living up with the culture? why claim the culture when you cant even preserve it?
All the discussions we heard have missed one point and that is Malaysians are not to be blamed for that silly design. It is all about the politician in charge not respecting our own young talents. Our PM is asking Malaysian talents working overseas to return home to serve our country and yet some politicians still prefer foreign efforts and not appreciate our own talents. These politicians who are supposed to represent Malaysians have accepted this foreign design for reasons I cannot even imagine. In fact, Dr. Ng Yen Yen, the Malaysian Tourism Minister, has admitted by telling Malaysian reporters after presenting the design to Deputy Director-General Bureau of Shanghai World Expo Coordination that the Architecture Design Institute of South China University of Technology had designed the Malaysian pavilion. This was also reported in the Shanghai Expo News web site (#270). Therefore the design is not done by our own architect even though there are quite a number of designs done by our own Malaysian talents being submitted to the Ministry of Tourism for consideration.
You can throw bad eggs at the politician involved but do not blame Malaysian as we are all just as disappointed with what has happened. Many firms have submitted excellent designs of Malaysian origin but the politician just prefer to chose one done by overseas may be for some selfish reasons as the Malaysian government has agreed to help finance this multi-million dollar project. At the Shanghai expo news web site (#247), a Malaysian senator has also mentioned that “…..the project was somehow ‘hijacked’ to a foreign company in China which has absolutely no knowledge of our local Minangkabau culture and history, resulting in a ‘rojak’ design of a pavilion which had incorporated graphic nuances that are more Indonesian rather than Malaysian. Such a project of national pride, in the first place, sh
hello.. greetings to all,
im a malaysian and a student studying in a local university.. honestly, i think the pavilion is crap, poorly done. and im not writing this to backup the design or my goverment. From what ive learnt, architecture existed since human learn to place a roof under their heads, to shelter themselves from threats from their surroundings. it could be thousands of years ago. so, nothing is original. simply put.
indonesians also should aware that we all came from the same root. even our language is almost the same. if im not mistaken only we, indonesia , malaysia n singapore use bahasa nusantara which have are influnced from hindu, arab etc cultures. Do they ever argued about this? think back.
moreover, there is no such thing as malaysia and indonesia during the majapahit, srivijaya era. tanah melayu which is malaysia now in once under the reign of those empires. what happened? they bring in the cultures. migrated here and assimilate or create their own community. we shared stuff once. why not now?
all this originality issue is just not mature and placing so much damage on our relationship over very little issues. what akimizaru and ellen said is truly right. even we are taught to do precedent studies. not copying, its evolving ideas. there’s no such thing like ’something i created’. forgive me for any misconceptions in my opinion. and i would to congratulate mas2pek for your wise speeches..orang kata ‘balas berhikmah’ hehe..
All the discussions we heard have missed one point and that is Malaysians are not to be blamed for that silly design. It is all about the politician in charge not respecting our own young talents. Our PM is asking Malaysian talents working overseas to return home to serve our country and yet some politicians still prefer foreign efforts and not appreciate our own talents. These politicians who are supposed to represent Malaysians have accepted this foreign design for reasons I cannot even imagine. In fact, Dr. Ng Yen Yen, the Malaysian Tourism Minister, has admitted by telling Malaysian reporters after presenting the design to Deputy Director-General Bureau of Shanghai World Expo Coordination that the Architecture Design Institute of South China University of Technology had designed the Malaysian pavilion. This was also reported in the Shanghai Expo News web site (#270). Therefore the design is not done by our own architect even though there are quite a number of designs done by our own Malaysian talents being submitted to the Ministry of Tourism for consideration.
You can throw bad eggs at the politician involved but do not blame Malaysian as we are all just as disappointed with what has happened. Many firms have submitted excellent designs of Malaysian origin but the politician just prefer to chose one done by overseas may be for some selfish reasons as the Malaysian government has agreed to help finance this multi-million dollar project. At the Shanghai expo news web site (#247), a Malaysian senator has also mentioned that “…..the project was somehow ‘hijacked’ to a foreign company in China which has absolutely no knowledge of our local Minangkabau culture and history, resulting in a ‘rojak’ design of a pavilion which had incorporated graphic nuances that are more Indonesian rather than Malaysian. Such a project of national pride, in the first place, should have been a 100% Malaysian effort. To the more knowledgeable people, this will appear to be a gross misrepresentation of our local Minangkabau culture and Malaysia will yet again become a laughing stock of the world!”
By the way, Indonesia did submit their design for the expo and thus will be taking part. Their design can be seen at the Shanghai Expo News web site (#50).
My condolence to all Indonesians after the Deadly Quake. It is moronic that your government issued an edict to have ‘Batik Day’ as a symbol of victory over cultural issues when you are ravaged by natural disasters. Ignorance is bliss.
After the disaster at Padang, which is the Indonesian region for all the source and arguments about this ‘Minangkabau’ architecture will spark more controversy. A wave of deeply hatred sentiments will further sink the two countries. People that are desperate will do anything to forget their desperateness,governments will turn into other issues to cover their own problems. All in the future to come.
My condolences to all the people of Padang.
This is a disgrace to all the GREAT Malaysian Architects in Malaysia. Seriously!
please stop stealing Indonesian culture, you mentally disorder !
OMG….1 MALAYSIA…but the architecture is only from one ethnic and one culture….Malaysia consists of MALAY, CHINESE, INDIAN, IBAN, KADAZAN and others….WHY only MALAY architecture been applied for the SHANGHAI EXPO 2010? SOMEHOW, rumah Minangkabau were only found in Negeri Sembilan…How About other state in MALAYSIA?… For instance, RUMAH PANJANG SARAWAK and etc….THIS type of architecture really CANNOT represent 1 MALAYSIA.
“WHAT KIND OF ONE MALAYSIA IS THAT!!!” Sorry to the Architectural designer of the particular pavilion, I dont have sense of belonging for the building even i am a Malaysian. One Malaysia is not means one race. Malaysia have more than one race. In my opinion, design of Malaysia pavilion should implied with the idea of tropical, openess, colourful, artistic and dynamic. And i really feel the particular architect did not put enough passion and effort in the design study. shame! shame!
damn there are a lot of comments here.
its just a plain ugly building straddled blindly to a terrible idea.
perhaps its the identity crisis or a post colonial cultural constipation problem.
lets just hope its just bad taste, like most things that seem to come about in that peninsula.
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